Talk:Language in Lovia
Perhaps you should also make a section "Immigrant languages". --OuWTBsjrief-mich 16:19, March 24, 2010 (UTC) :Yes, indeed. OWTB, I'd appreciate your help anyway on this article, in a later stage. I might be a linguist in training, you are already a full linguist :p 12:48, March 26, 2010 (UTC) ::Weah :P If you need any help you can ask me :) --OuWTBsjrief-mich 08:45, March 27, 2010 (UTC) :::Well, I will :). It seems like I won't have much time until next week, but afterwards I'll start writing. 10:18, March 27, 2010 (UTC) ::::Take your time (just like I do :P) --OuWTBsjrief-mich 10:25, March 27, 2010 (UTC) :::::I will 16:48, March 27, 2010 (UTC) ::::::We notice :P Bucurestean 11:34, April 11, 2010 (UTC) :::::::It's not as bad as the state elections which would surely be held in January :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 11:38, April 11, 2010 (UTC) ::::::::Indeed! :( Bucurestean 11:43, April 11, 2010 (UTC) Pompompom... Dimitri.. :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 13:10, October 29, 2010 (UTC) :Hmmm. Getting a bit overworked. 15:17, October 29, 2010 (UTC) :: :( --OuWTBsjrief-mich 16:14, October 29, 2010 (UTC) :::I'll get to it soon :). My workload at university is getting quite heavy this time of the year (writing papers, preparing/doing presentations, summarizing...), you see. 07:31, October 30, 2010 (UTC) ::::I don't think it would be very problematic :P We have been waiting half a year, so we can wait a bit longer :) --OuWTBsjrief-mich 07:39, October 30, 2010 (UTC) :::::Haha xD. 07:39, October 30, 2010 (UTC) Community Rethink I think we need to sit down together and take a look at Lovia, what languages there would be where and what dialects and really iron out the issue. I'd say that we need to work out the lingual influences as well, work out a language timeline. For instance East Sylvania was originally settled by independent Dutch colonists with the Belgian colonists (Flemish most like, in Boshem) and the American colonists (in Smithston) slightly diluting them. Therefore they spoke Dutch (except in Smithston) with little reason to speak anything else. Pre-Lovia immigration of Americans and Europeans to the area dilutes the Dutch and introduces more English. Integration begins to occur by the time that Lovia is formed. After Lovia is formed, immigration slows down, the English/Dutch languages mix and start affecting each other. Due to the Anglophone government, this means that the English becomes heavily Dutch influenced. The language continues to develop over the years with no other major influences. Therefore we are left with an East Sylvanian English Dialect that is probably primarily spoken in all the East Sylvanian settlements and maybe slightly in the surrounding areas. Looking deeply into the languages of Lovia should be done, especially as we are such a multi-lingual nation. Hoffmann KunarianTALK 13:36, May 26, 2015 (UTC) :You have in mind something like Dunglish or Steenkolenengels? HORTON11: • 13:47, May 26, 2015 (UTC) ::Certainly that would be useful for creating such a dialect. However I am trying to raise the point that we need to look at all of Lovia and try and construct a logical and clear picture of Lovia's languages and dialects today and how they developed. Hoffmann KunarianTALK 14:54, May 26, 2015 (UTC) :::I agree. In the past, Kunar and I have already worked on doing this for Oshenna, so I think it's logical that the other states are next. Starting with Sylvania :o --OuWTB 15:03, May 26, 2015 (UTC) ::::We'll have to do the same with the distribution of Bredish and Chinese in Clymene, as they do seem a little high for the former and overrepresented for the latter. HORTON11: • 15:20, May 26, 2015 (UTC) :::::Do we even have Asian-looking polticians (or people :o) on the wiki? :o --OuWTB 15:46, May 26, 2015 (UTC) :::::::Nguyen Van Tai, Yunus Xuan. :P 77topaz (talk) 20:31, May 26, 2015 (UTC) ::::::It seems like a worthwhile and interesting task to describe the linguistic situation in more detail, but as Dimitri pointed out 'one unique language is enough. We are not the world's language lab.' I don't believe it's feasible for any seriously divergent dijalekt to exist after over one hundred years of integration in such a small nation. I think the limit would be a handful of loanwords and expressions in rural areas, nothing more significant than we see from our Dutch-speaking users, and some very small changes in pronunciation. As for major settlements, they speak Californian English, realistically. --Semyon 16:40, May 26, 2015 (UTC) :::::::Semyon's got a point too :o --OuWTB 16:46, May 26, 2015 (UTC) ::::::::I disagree. Large settlements would not at all speak Californian English, the situation in California is completely different to Lovia. We would have had a minority speaking the English language when Lovia was formed, most people would be speaking their native tongue and native American English speakers would be only about 30% of the population. Further to this, I don't know when Dimitri said that but he wasn't about when we reformed population statistics or added in the rural and hamlet populations. I'm not talking about creating a load of different languages, I am talking about seriously looking at the lingual history of our nation and how things would look now. We will almost certainly have various dialects because the Russians in Novosevensk are going to have a different lingual history of adapting to English than the Dutch in East Sylvania or the Slovaks in Oceana. ::::::::Maybe large dialect areas have formed, but even then, within those are accents created by differing lingual circumstances which will heavily influence pronunciation. That's why we need to have a talk about this and set things out clearly and track the influence of things. Because we aren't America and we certainly aren't California. Hoffmann KunarianTALK 17:48, May 26, 2015 (UTC) :::::::::You don't see Hispanic Americans speaking a different dijalekt of English to German Americans. We can't feasibly have a greater linguistic diversity than the US, which is a thousand times our size. --Semyon 17:59, May 26, 2015 (UTC) ::::::::::I think there'd be close to a majority of English settlers considering the proximity to the United States and high population from Britain. :o But I think Lovian English would significantly differ from Californian English. Agree with Semyon on his most recent comment. —TimeMaster (talk • ) 18:34, May 26, 2015 (UTC) ::::::::::: Such diversity could exist (such as Texas German and New England French), but it seems to me like we have an overrepresentation of certain minority groups. Not to start another issue here but we have two Chinese placenames in Clymene while in the West coast of N.A., where Chinese came in much greater numbers and much earlier, there are no Chinese placenames (that I know of) or ethnic Chinese towns. HORTON11: • 18:46, May 26, 2015 (UTC) ::::::::::::@English-speaking settlers: perhaps. :o @Californian: I don't feel particularly strongly about it, but it's been on the LE page for many years and I'm surprised it's controversial. @languages: I know some immigrant languages survived in the US, but after a generation or two I believe spoken only by a tiny minority. :o @Chinese: agreed. --Semyon 19:05, May 26, 2015 (UTC) (reset) @English-speaking settlers: not from the history of Lovia. There was never a majority of English settlers at all, and we're not retconning it to suit you. @Californian: It makes no sense to be like Californian, especially when most settlers weren't even American. @languages/dialects: It seems strange that you still think America is a good comparison. Do I need to remind anyone how anti-anything that wasn't american the americans were? They had aggressively Anglophone conversion policies which Lovia didn't have at all, in Lovia the idea was that English became common because it was the most practical rather than out of colonialism like in America. And further http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Latino_English, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Mexican_Spanish and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanglish for your Hispanic point. Further America was incredibly racist and strove to keep immigrants and non-white Americans down, unlike Lovia, and so very few could do well or get anywhere and thus why despite loads of immigrants of various small groups you rarely find places with names that are Chinese or otherwise. I think it's very Naive to compare Lovia and America when one was reasonably egalitarian and respectful of immigrants, their languages and customs while the other hated them for everything but cheap labour. Hoffmann KunarianTALK 20:26, May 26, 2015 (UTC) :I think a comparison of Lovia to the US is perfectly reasonable. --Semyon 20:29, May 26, 2015 (UTC) :Where does it say that wasn't decreed by you (or maybe Semyon :o) that there wasn't a majority of English-speaking settlers? —TimeMaster (talk • ) 20:32, May 26, 2015 (UTC) ::@no majority: http://nation.wikia.com/wiki/Noble_City#Demography_and_ethnicity (Dimitri's statistics), http://nation.wikia.com/wiki/Sylvania_Demographic_Center#Ethnic_Group_by_Ancestry_2 (Kunar's statistics), http://nation.wikia.com/wiki/Oceana_Demographic_Center#Ethnicity (Oos's statistics), http://nation.wikia.com/wiki/Seven_Demographic_Center#Ethnic_groups (Semyon's statistics), and there seem to be no ethnicities in Kings (http://nation.wikia.com/wiki/Kings_Demographic_Center#Ethnicity), and no people in Clymene (http://nation.wikia.com/wiki/Clymene_Demographic_Center#Ethnicity) :o --OuWTB 06:58, May 27, 2015 (UTC) ::Oos: the Clymene demographics are here. :P 77topaz (talk) 07:54, May 27, 2015 (UTC) :::Not any more :o --OuWTB 07:59, May 27, 2015 (UTC) :::Interesting... but I would expect many of those to be speaking English since they would have gone through the US to get here. —TimeMaster (talk • ) 10:03, May 27, 2015 (UTC) ::::@majority: that doesn't imply Lovia wasn't majority English-speaking at every point though. :o Only a minority of Americans are of English-speaking ancestry. @the topic: to reiterate, Lovia is a small nation which is English-speaking. We already have a (one might say takavikily) large linguistic diversity in the form of Oceana and Bredish; more is in my opinion unnecessary and unwanted. --Semyon 10:34, May 27, 2015 (UTC) :::::Alternatively, we could get rid of Bredish :o --OuWTB 10:57, May 27, 2015 (UTC) ::::::You're going in the opposite direction, then. :o I'm somewhere between and removing Bredish, as in spite of its takavikiness, Sjors did put a lot of work into it. I'm certainly new takaviki things though. --Semyon 12:30, May 27, 2015 (UTC) ::::::: :o I'm also to new takavíhkiness though :o --OuWTB 12:49, May 27, 2015 (UTC) ::::::::Fully adding new takavíhkiness. I'm also to removing Bredish, though I wouldn't mind detakavíhkifying it. --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 13:42, May 27, 2015 (UTC) ::::::::: :o Maybe you should take charge of the netakavikifikatsia process, 4kant? :o You speak Dutch and apparently know something about linguistics. :o --Semyon 13:47, May 27, 2015 (UTC) ::::::::::I would love to see Qytokant working to fix Bredish, however, we all know he never finishes anything :o --OuWTB 13:59, May 27, 2015 (UTC) ::::::::::: :o Maybe this is a good way to improve his motivation and self-discipline then. :o --Semyon 14:05, May 27, 2015 (UTC) :::::::::::: I'd like to see Bredish being developed from what it has right now. As of now I've been the only one apart from Sjors interested in it. HORTON11: • 14:25, May 27, 2015 (UTC) :::::::::::::@Oos: you can't blame me for never finishing anything unfinishable :'( --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 15:31, May 27, 2015 (UTC) ::::::::::::::Who is to blame then? :o --OuWTB 16:04, May 27, 2015 (UTC) :::::::::::::::*What :P --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 16:07, May 27, 2015 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::What is to blame then? :o :o --OuWTB 16:17, May 27, 2015 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::The fact that one can always elaborate more and therefore never can finish something :o --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 16:45, May 27, 2015 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::Mmm.. That doesn't quite explain why most of your - rare - pages tend to be stubs and rather not elaborate :o --OuWTB 17:05, May 27, 2015 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::::Reread what I wrote: one can always elaborate more :P --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 17:46, May 27, 2015 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::::That still doesn't really work against my argument that you never tend to finish anything or at least bring something to an acceptable level of informativity and size though :o --OuWTB 17:54, May 27, 2015 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::::::Maybe I will this time though :o --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 18:02, May 27, 2015 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::::::It would certainly happify me and many other users if that were to be true :o --OuWTB 18:26, May 27, 2015 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::::::::Then it will :o --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 18:28, May 27, 2015 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::::::::: :o --OuWTB 18:37, May 27, 2015 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::::::::::Galha happifikikam. :) --Semyon 21:38, May 27, 2015 (UTC)